Talk:Installation: Difference between revisions

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== WIP: Streamline and concentrate all the essential info on the basic install page ==
== New Discussions ==


== Usual Hardware Requirements ==
I wasn't here for most of the drama, but it might help with reducing redundant pages and poor verbiage if some of the other "install" pages were made subpages of this one. Instead of "Installing Alpine in a virtual machine", "Installing Alpine on VMware ESXi", "Alpine on ARM", etc... we could group by hypervisor (if any), then architecture or firmware, then board, etc... existing only where there are differences between others of the same level. For example:


* At least 100 MB of RAM (A desktop system may require up to 1 GB.)
* '''Installation/VirtualBox/BIOS''' -
* The "sys" or "data" run modes (see below) require a storage device.
* '''Installation/AARCH64/Raspberry Pi 4'''
* '''Installation/x86/Dell Inspiron 1525'''


== Install Procedure ==
Alternatively, we could duplicate the top level installation page for each architecture (like the Gentoo Handbook). That would allow better nuance in the initial media preparation and boot process. This page would then simply provide a brief guide of choosing the correct arch. [[User:Arrogance|Arrogance]] ([[User talk:Arrogance|talk]]) 09:17, 30 May 2023 (UTC)


Similar to many other distributions, the first installation steps usually consist of
:+1 for this idea. I'm not a pro at this but it would make it easier to navigate. Is the subpage feature on for regular pages? [[User:Bbbhltz|bbbhltz]] ([[User talk:Bbbhltz|talk]]) 10:46, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
::No, it's not on, although that doesn't technically stop making pages this way. It mostly just means there isn't a built-in way to navigate to parent pages. Within certain constraints (a hypothetical '''Installation/x86''' would need to be named '''Installation/X86''', for example), it shouldn't stop enabling them at a future date, either.  [[User:Arrogance|Arrogance]] ([[User talk:Arrogance|talk]]) 18:25, 30 May 2023 (UTC)


# [http://alpinelinux.org/downloads Downloading] one of the latest stable-release ISOs, and comparing the image's <code>sha265sum</code> checksum to the one in the corresponding <code>*.sha256</code> checksum file () and verify its GPG signature.
== Resolved Discussions==
# Either burning the ISO onto a blank CD with your favorite CD burning software, or [[Create a Bootable USB|creating a bootable USB drive]].
# Booting from the CD or USB drive, and logging in to the command line as user <code>root</code> with its initally empty password.
(For installing on ARM systems, see [[Alpine_on_ARM|Alpine on ARM]].)


However, contrary to most other distributions, this initially booted Alpinelinux (command line environment) is first copied entirely into RAM, and then runs completely independent from the (slow) initial boot media.
=== Focused users and edits ===
And then, the <code>[[Alpine_setup_scripts|setup-alpine]]</code> script, and other tools, are used to configure the initial Alpinelinux system, install further packages, and prepare the system for the next boot.


Alpinelinux can boot into three general run modes:
We are aware that wiki is not so complete but, last month wiki installation page are a crap ton of changes.. The wiki page tries to include so many information.. but it lacks of good structure, neither hav a good requirements page


'''diskless mode''' This is the default boot mode of the .iso images. With the <code>[[setup-alpine]]</code> selection "disk=none" the whole system runs from RAM. Customized configuration and package selections may still be preserved on permanent storage media with <code>lbu</code>, the "local backup tool", and by using a [[Alpine_Linux_package_management#Local_Cache|local package cache]].
So then '''I separated the requirements detailed''' to a new wiki page, https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Requirements, with all details and reduce significatively the installation page details to only RAM and SPACE storage..  


'''data mode''' This mode also runs mostly from RAM, with the exception of a selected writable partition that gets mounted as {{Path|/var}}. It is better-suited when large amounts of data need to be preserved between reboots, e.g. for mailspools, databases or log servers, and so on.
Later added a section in https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_newbie_install_manual#Ways_to_install_Alpine_listed_by_architectures so then '''users that need different methods of install does not need to crap''' with over information the only wiki installation page.. (over information) '''I mean over sentences of "for this ARM flafour go to here and here and for this toy go to here"'''


'''sys mode''' This is a traditional hard-disk install. The <code>[[setup-alpine]]</code> script defaults to create three partitions on the selected disk, for {{Path|/boot}}, {{Path|swap}} and {{Path|/}} (filesystem root). This mode may be used for [[Desktops|desktops]], development boxes, and virtual machines.
'''Last then i reduced rest of info to improved independent pages of each one!'''  
Contributions must be focused in independent cases and listed in how to and tutorial wiki page .. so then i can check and later listed at new users tutorial pages.


All of this new pages will be improved in next days. Currently information was slpitted and improved to reduce the oversized installation page!


== Additional Hints ==
'''''About changes and recent diff from SB1 June and July changes..'''.''


=== Booting from external devices ===
'''Checksum command is a extra optional info''': first note are the checksum command to verify.. only takes in consideration linux (ovbiusly will be so "rare" if not) and win! there' is no more OS in the world? there's no MAC or FreeBSD? is clear Alpine need minimal linux knowledge so are nonsense try to catch win users without minimal linux knowledge.. specific pages for that must be done! not in main install pages!


Insert the media to the proper drive or port of the computer and turn on the computer.
'''Boot of external devices''' depends of each computer device so each wiki page cases of architecture installation must added its own information
But depending on the computer it may be necessary, e.g. to press the `F12` key to get a selection to choose the media to boot from.


=== The setup-alpine questions ===
'''also the use Sb1 erased/changed so many information''' and does not property posted in any other page .. (i mean setup alpine or similar) all the info was grouped and pasted in main installation page.. oversized the target of.. the good examples of wiki pages must be like:  https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_Linux:FAQ#What_is_the_difference_between_.27sys.27.2C_.27data.27.2C_and_.27diskless.27_when_running_.27setup-alpine.27_or_.27setup-disk.27.3F makes references to install page as further deep information available.. but this page as i said was changed significatively..


The <code>[[setup-alpine]]</code> script will ask to configure several things, including:


* Keyboard map (e.g. ''us'' and variant of ''us-nodeadkeys'')
--[[User:mckaygerhard|mckaygerhard]] July 2020
* Hostname (The name for the computer.)
* Network options
* DNS options: Not recommended to use 8.8.8.8 (google servers).
* Timezone
* Proxy ("None" to connect directly to the internet.)
* SSH (Openssh is part of the default images.)
* NTP (Chrony is part of the default images.)
* Mode (Select between "diskless", "data" or "sys" as described above.)


 
* Sorry, it's problematic when your edits **replace** concise pages with your "alpine newbie" series style. (And that repeatedly.) For readers looking for information, these are a quite much convoluted agglomeration of multiple, unmaintainable pages with much overlapping and duplicate information and do not refrain from opinionated jargon. </br></br>For example, it does not make much sense to move the recommended image verification commands into some [[Requirements]] page. That page is immense and convoluted with unmaintanable tables that for example only resemble statistics about the currently downloadable images. Further, parts of it are duplicated in the plethora of "Alpine_newbie" install recipes (in which readers that follow it or want to look up something to get lost in, without getting a much needed overview and information about the available options, to end up being able to arrive at well informed decisions). </br></br> =>  So there are good reasons why your changes were reverted (12:40, 12 December 2020‎ "Reverting as of https://lists.alpinelinux.org/~alpine/devel/<20201002143513.yco7vwx2ci3lqezm@wolfsden.cz> Second time user Mckaygerhard pulled stunt on this page. (Aug.13/19 & Jul.12/20))
 
=== Booting and using the new system ===
 
After the installation is completed, depending on the run mode, the initial installation media may be removed and the system can be booted from the newly installed device.
After booting one may read [[Alpine_newbie_apk_packages|Alpine post install packages and setup configurations for new users]] and find further areas to customize the new system.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
== Suggestions ==
 
About [[Installing Alpine on Compact Flash]] and [[Installing Alpine on USB]], I think those two should be merged, steps are thesame.
--[[User:K0gen|K0gen]] 20:06, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
 
== Booting from ISO ==
 
 
::::: I've given up. Couldn't make the intended setup work with my meager Linux knowledge. I did find a page here at the wiki where under the heading '[http://www.alpinelinux.org/w/index.php?title=Replacing_non-Alpine_Linux_with_Alpine_remotely Install Alpine cd-rom image on hard disk]' a somewhat related solution is provided, but it involves extracting the distro files from the iso, something that [http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/ unetbootin] does in a rather more easy and straightforward way -- at least, that's what I used to get Alpine to boot from a USB pendrive (plenty of recipes for that around). However, I still believe a simple 'boot from iso' procedure could do wonders for Alpine, so I'm leaving this here for future reference. Should anyone disagree, do feel free to delete. [[User:Pnin|Pnin]] 05:43, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
 
 
Current system is a 2.8 Prescott Pentium IV with 2MB RAM, booting from a 1GB CF plugged into the IDE controller, with an attached 500GB SATA HDD for data. When I tried to install Alpine from the LiveCD to this card, which is listed as a hard drive by the BIOS, it complained of insufficient space. Fair enough. Next I tried to follow [http://www.pendrivelinux.com/boot-multiple-iso-from-usb-via-grub2-using-linux/ this recipe] to boot from Alpine 2.1.4 iso; at the end you find this tip:
 
:''Adding an Unlisted ISO: To try ISO Files that are not yet listed, use the existing menuentry examples in /boot/grub/grub.cfg and append any options normally found in the distributions syslinux.cfg file on the "append" line to the "linux" line of the menu entry.''
 
So I downloaded the latest Alpine iso via wget and modified the relevant ''grub.cfg'' lines to:
 
linux (loop)/boot/grsec initrd=/boot/grsec.gz iso-scan/filename=/alpine214.iso alpine_dev=usbdisk:vfat modules=loop,cramfs,sd-mod,usb-storage quiet
initrd (loop)/boot/grsec.gz
 
All I got when I tried to boot this was the following error:
 
'''Alpine Init 2.1.2'''
'''/init: eval: line 1: syntax error: unexpected "("'''
'''kernel panic - not syncing: attempted to kill init!'''
'''Pid: 1, comm: init Not tainted 2.6.35.10-grsec #1-Alpine'''
[...]
 
I must say all went well with the Linux Mint 10.10 and the TinyCore isos, into which I'm able to boot with no issues. Anyone care to advise?
 
[[User:Pnin|Pnin]]
 
 
----
 
 
Hi, that "linux (loop)/boot/...." thing looks funny to me.
 
According to: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
 
Could you try:
 
  set root=(loop0)
linux /boot/grsec initrd=/boot/grsec.gz iso-scan/filename=/alpine214.iso alpine_dev=usbdisk:vfat modules=loop,cramfs,sd-mod,usb-storage quiet
initrd /boot/grsec.gz
 
[[User:Nangel|Nangel]] 13:49, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 
 
----
 
 
Hi & thanks, Nangel.
 
Tried that and got this error:
 
error: no such disk.
error: you need to load the kernel first.
press any key to continue...
 
Pressing any key returns to the grub menu. Maybe the full ''grub.cfg'' entry should be reported here:
 
menuentry "Alpine Linux" {
loopback loop /alpine214.iso
linux (loop)/boot/grsec initrd=/boot/grsec.gz iso-scan/filename=/alpine214.iso alpine_dev=usbdisk:vfat modules=loop,cramfs,sd-mod,usb-storage quiet
initrd (loop)/boot/grsec.gz
}
 
It should also be noted that the LiveCD used to perform the [http://www.pendrivelinux.com/boot-multiple-iso-from-usb-via-grub2-using-linux/ recipe] was "Linux Mint 9 LXDE", which caused Grub 1.98-1ubuntu5-1mint2 to be installed, not Grub2. And that (loop) part is present in every other successful menu entry.
 
[EDIT: Just to add that IMHO coupled with the [http://www.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_local_backup Alpine Local Backup Utility] (lbu), booting from iso would be a killer for Alpine, making systems really easy to troubleshoot (delete local backup) and upgrade (replace iso).]
 
[[User:Pnin|Pnin]] 14:34, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 
 
----

Latest revision as of 18:25, 30 May 2023

New Discussions

I wasn't here for most of the drama, but it might help with reducing redundant pages and poor verbiage if some of the other "install" pages were made subpages of this one. Instead of "Installing Alpine in a virtual machine", "Installing Alpine on VMware ESXi", "Alpine on ARM", etc... we could group by hypervisor (if any), then architecture or firmware, then board, etc... existing only where there are differences between others of the same level. For example:

  • Installation/VirtualBox/BIOS -
  • Installation/AARCH64/Raspberry Pi 4
  • Installation/x86/Dell Inspiron 1525

Alternatively, we could duplicate the top level installation page for each architecture (like the Gentoo Handbook). That would allow better nuance in the initial media preparation and boot process. This page would then simply provide a brief guide of choosing the correct arch. Arrogance (talk) 09:17, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

+1 for this idea. I'm not a pro at this but it would make it easier to navigate. Is the subpage feature on for regular pages? bbbhltz (talk) 10:46, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
No, it's not on, although that doesn't technically stop making pages this way. It mostly just means there isn't a built-in way to navigate to parent pages. Within certain constraints (a hypothetical Installation/x86 would need to be named Installation/X86, for example), it shouldn't stop enabling them at a future date, either. Arrogance (talk) 18:25, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Resolved Discussions

Focused users and edits

We are aware that wiki is not so complete but, last month wiki installation page are a crap ton of changes.. The wiki page tries to include so many information.. but it lacks of good structure, neither hav a good requirements page

So then I separated the requirements detailed to a new wiki page, https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Requirements, with all details and reduce significatively the installation page details to only RAM and SPACE storage..

Later added a section in https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_newbie_install_manual#Ways_to_install_Alpine_listed_by_architectures so then users that need different methods of install does not need to crap with over information the only wiki installation page.. (over information) I mean over sentences of "for this ARM flafour go to here and here and for this toy go to here"

Last then i reduced rest of info to improved independent pages of each one! Contributions must be focused in independent cases and listed in how to and tutorial wiki page .. so then i can check and later listed at new users tutorial pages.

All of this new pages will be improved in next days. Currently information was slpitted and improved to reduce the oversized installation page!

About changes and recent diff from SB1 June and July changes...

Checksum command is a extra optional info: first note are the checksum command to verify.. only takes in consideration linux (ovbiusly will be so "rare" if not) and win! there' is no more OS in the world? there's no MAC or FreeBSD? is clear Alpine need minimal linux knowledge so are nonsense try to catch win users without minimal linux knowledge.. specific pages for that must be done! not in main install pages!

Boot of external devices depends of each computer device so each wiki page cases of architecture installation must added its own information

also the use Sb1 erased/changed so many information and does not property posted in any other page .. (i mean setup alpine or similar) all the info was grouped and pasted in main installation page.. oversized the target of.. the good examples of wiki pages must be like: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_Linux:FAQ#What_is_the_difference_between_.27sys.27.2C_.27data.27.2C_and_.27diskless.27_when_running_.27setup-alpine.27_or_.27setup-disk.27.3F makes references to install page as further deep information available.. but this page as i said was changed significatively..


--mckaygerhard July 2020

  • Sorry, it's problematic when your edits **replace** concise pages with your "alpine newbie" series style. (And that repeatedly.) For readers looking for information, these are a quite much convoluted agglomeration of multiple, unmaintainable pages with much overlapping and duplicate information and do not refrain from opinionated jargon.

    For example, it does not make much sense to move the recommended image verification commands into some Requirements page. That page is immense and convoluted with unmaintanable tables that for example only resemble statistics about the currently downloadable images. Further, parts of it are duplicated in the plethora of "Alpine_newbie" install recipes (in which readers that follow it or want to look up something to get lost in, without getting a much needed overview and information about the available options, to end up being able to arrive at well informed decisions).

    => So there are good reasons why your changes were reverted (12:40, 12 December 2020‎ "Reverting as of https://lists.alpinelinux.org/~alpine/devel/<20201002143513.yco7vwx2ci3lqezm@wolfsden.cz> Second time user Mckaygerhard pulled stunt on this page. (Aug.13/19 & Jul.12/20))
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